Sub:Culture Presents: The Hive Podcast

Lies We Believe About God: White Jesus

January 13, 2021 Sub:Culture Inc.
Sub:Culture Presents: The Hive Podcast
Lies We Believe About God: White Jesus
Chapters
Sub:Culture Presents: The Hive Podcast
Lies We Believe About God: White Jesus
Jan 13, 2021
Sub:Culture Inc.

In light of the foolishness of these times, join Tamice and Erin as they talk about the myth of white Jesus. 

If you'd like to support The Hive Podcast, you can go to our Patreon: patreon.com/subcultureinc
There you will find extra content from the Hive team as well as access to our exclusive Slack community where patrons can engage with each other and ask questions for Q&A episodes. 

Thanks for listening! 

Show Notes Transcript

In light of the foolishness of these times, join Tamice and Erin as they talk about the myth of white Jesus. 

If you'd like to support The Hive Podcast, you can go to our Patreon: patreon.com/subcultureinc
There you will find extra content from the Hive team as well as access to our exclusive Slack community where patrons can engage with each other and ask questions for Q&A episodes. 

Thanks for listening! 

Erin:

Hey guys just a warning, in case you've got kids around or something. This episode contains some expletives. There are a lot of reasons to be distrustful of the Western expression of Christianity.

Tamice:

Was it all made up? Was it a scam? Are they lying? was any of it ever true?

Erin:

This segment will confront the lies we've been taught to believe about God, God's church, and God's purposes in the world.

Tamice:

It's a segment to ask questions about how we got here, where we go from here. It's a place to be brutally honest and explore. To me, I'm Aaron. And this is lies, we believe. So in light of all of the foolishness, thought, the good life, the best lie, excuse me at the moment to cover the lie of white Jesus.

Erin:

I thought that was just Jesus to me, girl by Jesus. Girl,

Tamice:

where Jesus tried to murder kill my soul. Oh, Lord. How are you? How are you processing this recent insurrection? What do you think white Jesus has to do with that? Talk to me? Talk to me.

Erin:

Yes, so the timing of it for me. But I co host a podcast with my buddy Jeremy Goomba, called the root of dialog. We were literally sitting down with him and my friend Marco McWilliams, who we do some cohort work for some culture together to in our series on Christian nationalism while this was happening, so I pull up to our session, and I'm like, y'all, there's a coup, there's a bunch of white people running up the steps. And they're like, what, and we just start checking our phones. And we just kept recording, because we're like, this is literally what we're talking about happening in real time. And then my little role was just to give periodic AP news updates of like, he's not calling in the National Guard, he is calling in the National Guard, here's what's happening. And it was actually like, was deeply comforting to be with friends. And actually engaging in some of like, the crucial work to fight back against us allies at that time. So I was kind of weirdly poetic, but and it sounds I don't know if you felt this in the air, but I feel like and maybe it's because laughter is a way to cope with like, the hysterics of our time, but we kind of all felt this posture of like, get your popcorn and watch whiteness work. Like, this is ridiculous. And you know, in a like, dark comedy kind of way we like, of course,

Tamice:

this is just Greek national news. I think I had a similar reaction, I didn't know what was going on. Because this is the first year without my grandfather, and that was his birthday. So I was kind of like, in my zone, and like spending time, you know, just reflecting and missing him and and then it kind of popped up on the screen. And I just thought it was something really crazy. Like, it was like I don't you know, you get those little notifications, and you don't really have time to read the whole thing. It's talking about like a breach in the Capitol. And I literally thought it was like a Netflix show or like, you know, because it sounded so like 24 ish or something.

Unknown:

So

Tamice:

and so what we like I looked at it, and then someone sent me a picture of these people really like Spider Man sprawling, the Capitol. And I was just like, for a minute, it was just like, what, like, what is happening? And I think as the day went on, and more videos surfaced and things like that, it became a lot more like, it was funny at first and then I got really pissed. I'm still in the anger stage, actually. And yeah, because it's like, I I watched people like walk past police officers, you know, and literally,

Unknown:

like,

Tamice:

there are people and

Erin:

then the selfies when that like, as hours go on. We start getting images of the barricades being opened for them by police taking effing selfies with police officers. Yeah. I'm assuming that felt like a knife to the gut of like,

Tamice:

of course like and I do I see the the weird irony or poetry of like, the response to these insurrectionists, white supremacist mob. rioters thugs. That's

Unknown:

what I'm going to call them.

Tamice:

Whatever that name could be everything I can call him, I throw it at them. This is what they throw at peaceful protesters who were guests. So that the President could take a picture in front of a church with an upside down Bible. Yeah. And thinking of just the layers upon layers upon layers of madness and foolishness. And

Unknown:

I'm pissed, like, yeah, yeah.

Tamice:

I mean, I'm thinking about Briana Taylor, who was like asleep, right, like, in her room? And it just, it's like, it's glaring it,

Erin:

I think it

Unknown:

is, it is, it is,

Tamice:

I do actually feel nauseous. And yeah, it was interesting, because I, I, like, at the beginning of the year, I kind of had gotten to a place of being really just over dancing for people, and realizing I got my own thing now. So it's like, really being over that. And if I'm pissed about something and want to say fuck on my turn, then I'm gonna do that, you know, feeling like a little bit of more freedom in that regard of being honest with folks. And so I had posted all of that stuff. And then the riot happens at the Capitol. And I remember thinking like that, I am so angry. And normally I'll try to find a way to like nuance that or push it down somewhere, or like, you know, refurbish it, so that people might hear me, but I'm just like, this is so, um, I'm done. I can't deal with it right now.

Erin:

Okay, it reminds me of the moment in scripture where folks are I think this the disciples are like begging Jesus to show a sign. So then folks will believe, like, just just just one, one more sign, and we'll get it Jesus. And he was like, I will not give you a sign, like, like, I have given signs this generation has been given and a sign will not make them believe any more than they are ready to and that their idolatry is either as that makes me Just think about all those passages about though they have eyes, they do not see them and hear over and over again, that it just reminds me of this moment, which is like, it's probably why we're all so exhausted. And that Ron is an anger because it's like, okay, like, George George Floyd was this eight minute long apologetic where he calls out for his deceased mother, like, the level the levels of humanity and like unifying ache in that. And then and then and then to get to this point where you literally within seconds, because internet, we can have parallel pictures of the cops on the steps for BLM protests. And then what's happening, it's just this like, you know, for for anyone who cares about liberating black bodies and black futures, it's just like, Oh, so you literally will not will not repent. Mm hmm. With the most concrete evidence. pot is crazy.

Tamice:

I mean, you know, and it's like, I mean, I've been thinking about the passages about strong delusion, and how like, you know, I grew up in white evangelicalism, that's a dead horse, but like, I remember these passages and like, we always thought it was like, you know, flaming homos. And it turns out, it's like, fascist heterosexual white men that are actually the, the like, you know, they taught it they told us it was the gays and it was abortion and it was movies that had kissing in like, radar films that that was like gonna be this delusion that drove the world to madness. And like, the the homophobia in that the nationalism in that, like you couldn't even see it for what it was, or at least I didn't because I was trusting these people to teach me and it's like,

Unknown:

I feel

Tamice:

like there's such a juxtaposition in terms of hospitality in terms of like, like, vision to be a neighbor in terms of thinking about the earth. Like in the people, they said, we're going to be the like, right? And then here you are climbing a fence like a child because you lost fair and square. And thinking about, like, how maddening it is that people are like, Oh, that was an Tifa dressed up.

Erin:

Are you guys?

Tamice:

Are y'all serious? Like, the I am? So I can't it's a burden, I think, or it makes me want to like weep because of the levels of delusion. Like, yeah,

Erin:

it's actually the painful isn't it? There is no, there is no logic when you're drunk. With idolatry. So are and then I think what's hard is like, in, in, in Jesus circles were taught enemy love and kindness and patience and endurance. And so it gets really confusing to know. Like, okay, well, I feel like, I should try to reason with you. It's kind of at least, you know, as I'm like, in my journey, you know, it's like, okay, and I've been, you know, there's this phrase benefit of the doubt that white folks love and we are married to, and we love to throw that around. So that, because we still believe that we have some superior thing to offer to these conversations. So we throw out benefit of doubt, because we're asking marginalized folks to remain at the table with us. While so that we can just figure this out a little bit longer. And we can just wait for the facts or X, Y, and Z. And I think about, you know, this moment, and it's like you actually you don't reason with demons? So what do we do with demons? Yes, yes. And that's like, that's what was the shift for me in January of 2020. When I think my, you know, there's like a, what I'm learning and seeing in myself and other white folks is there's these like, very similar cycles of development on an anti racist journey. And self righteousness is a huge threshold that you have to move through this sort of, like, Well, I have become so enlightened. Why have Why have other white folks not done the work that I've done? And why are they so ignorant, etc, etc, and you start blaming, and you start shifting the way and the shift for me, like God literally spoke to me about it, and gave me in a prayer group with other white folks, this vision of literally shoving down on white people's bodies and heads to like, get to the top of something and to try to ape our whiteness by literally turning around and doing the same thing to other white folks. And the word in that all of that was like, do you not know it is I who have caused the scales to fall from your eyes? This is a demonic oppression, you did not resign yourself out of this. You did not even humanism or liberalism your way out of this? Yeah, that's not what that is. That when you when you see like, like goodness and truth and empathy and compassion, and others centered liberation, like searing through your life, that's evidence of the Holy Spirit's work in your life. That's your own goodness. So that I think just like the shift to start praying about this stuff, and like, when I see all that happening in life, actually, I there's almost a weird, like, yeah, it's just like, oh, they're delusional. Oh, there's there drunk and they're, they're possessed. And yeah, yeah. And I, I am frequently oppressed by the same thing. And so it's like, you know, yeah, I hear you.

Tamice:

I'm like, thinking about you being being over. Like, coddling demons. And feeling like I just was surrounded by this thing. I was even I was even myself, you know, influenced by this thing. And I was talking to my friend jazzy and thinking like, about all of these sorts of decisions that I'm making, because my health is important. And like, one of them has been like, like to be more authentic in myself. And I remember thinking, like, the, the fact that I have, like, clades all of these audiences, over all of these years, has actually taken a toll on like, my health. And, you know, at the end of it, you know, I'm processing with her and she goes, Well, you know, like, no one ever told us that freedom would be so lonely. And, and that's like what I'm living in right now. Because it's not that I'm ungodly, that I call this What it is, and it's not that I'm a jerk, and it's not that I, as your friend have changed and all these things, it's that like, I'm getting free from this thing. I don't want any I like want no parts of this team, you know? And like, I think that that's something that I'm walking into, as well. And I feel like, what makes it hard for people? Is this concept that Jesus is white. And I don't think that they would. I don't think that anybody would say, Oh, Jesus is a white guy. But they certainly are very quick to say, Well, he's not black, who I can hear. What is Jesus? Right, and thinking a little bit about where that came from? And how it's like, people think that Jesus is more like William Wallace, you know, yeah,

Erin:

yeah. Yeah. That was the, for the last for recent history. That was the package in whom Jesus was delivered to the world, because of the 19th century missionary movement and because of the papal booty, but you know, the Catholic Church, you know, left unsaid colonizers, so that's like, probably one of the most infuriating things about whiteness is its its ability to, to shape shift and Gaslight you into not using racialized language the whole way through. So it's not being said, like, you won't find white anywhere. It any of the text in any, you know, any of the, the air that we're breathing, I was somewhere who was saying that, Oh, it was a tick tock creator, creator, revealing my sources. white woman doing some of this anti racist work, and she described whiteness as like, there's this concept in film, where they will before they prep a scene, they ask everyone to be quiet, so that you can hear the background noise that is always worrying that you're not aware of when when you're it, you know, talking and speaking and having an activity to quiet down into catch that so that they can then like remove that from what they're recording. And he describes whiteness that way. And that is it's this. It's the static noise in the background of this entire country's existence that we don't, we don't become you can't grab it. It's not announcing itself. But it is but it just is pervasively president. And there's so much there I think for for us white people, it's like, when Jesus is white, which Jesus is for white Christians. He can't white Jesus can't hold us accountable to our racial violence. Wow, though. He knows it. And White Jesus can't hold us accountable to anything that white ness values, no power control. And centering, dominant greed, violence, like that, then then the read of Scripture Really? Yeah, it becomes a story of I'll fly away and an eschatological vision for being chosen. And, and being superior because you claim Jesus. So I mean, you know, everything I'm saying comes from years of listening to non white people. Teach me about who Jesus is. And because I can't as a white Christian, understand what I just shared with you, without relationship proximity or submission to non white voices, you know, so yeah, so it's like you can't you're not going to get there. And then that's the thing because it's that background noise. That is how it disseminates from generation to generation to generation because it's, it's not an it's not in plain sight. Its shape shifting. Oh, then you teach your kids Jesus loves me this I know for the Bible tells me so. You teach your kid we love all people. We don't see color you teach your kid prayer left the schools and that There, that's actually an attack on us, you know, you just start is just like that information goes unchecked from generation to generation and ends up in exactly what we're seeing today.

Unknown:

Absolutely.

Tamice:

What do you think like, I'm thinking about the trajectory I have that I like, wrote a little something, because I need it, I'm pissed. So I needed to get it off my chest. But then now I'm kind of in my like, nerd mode of like, how white Jesus goes from, you know, the pulpit, to the, to the, you know, front of the steps of the Capitol, and that, like, people are not aware that these things are in tandem, like this is not. And it's insulting for people to be like, Oh, my God, what is Oh my God. And like, I feel insulted. It even feels violent. Because for 10 years since Trayvon died, yeah, nearly 10 years, we've been telling you

Erin:

10 years, yeah, about this,

Tamice:

talking to think of all of the black bodies, and all of the arguments you had to have with people over and over and over again, people in your DMS people, unfollowing people, not supporting people telling you a, b, and c. And now all of a sudden those people want to I mean, it started there was a wave, you know, with George Floyd, and it was a little different than because it was like, I don't even know what the difference was. But I think like it was something about the devastation of him Go ahead.

Erin:

And all the work that black activists had done since Trayvon. So like, groundwork, all those seeds had been sowed. So that the conversation with George Floyd was not about white privilege. It was about white supremacy. And it wasn't about police reform, it was about the abolition of police, like, all of that is credit to the labor. And the long you have So yeah,

Tamice:

I think that's so well, that's encouraging, because I think like, I mean, I'm really feeling tired, and and i really it like, I cannot handle the shock. How did you not know that this thing was violent? How did you not know that this thing was insurrectionist? How did you not know? Like, we like how did you not know you've had so much time? And and the people are like I remember and I'm gonna be honest, but like I had, I had posted something at one point. And the person called and was like, you know, I just really take this personally. And it had to do something with like, like, we can't disagree about racism, like, we can disagree about pizza, not about racism, and something to that degree. And like, how are we going to be friends and y'all are not whatever, until somebody contacted me about that said they were heard about it. I, you know, pulled it back, reeled it back a little bit. And I'm thinking about how, at least four people who called me after I posted that said, Well, I'm voting for Donald Trump. And now you're wanting to have this conversation. And I said, you know, one of them was like, I just, I mean, I just feel like, that's what the Spirit is telling you to do. Cool. And I'm like, you know what, like, I am actually fearful because of these militias, that are cornering people of color. And you have the audacity to call me Tell me, you love me, and then say, but I'm still gonna vote for him

Erin:

like funky. But that, but that's the like, that's the hubris of whiteness. Is that, and the the, the Gnostic roots of it to separate mind from body, that you can think that I can make decisions and choices that are based on ID ideas, and ideology. And that is disconnected from bodily impact. Which is literally, so called Christian masters, saying, Oh, we got to christianize slaves, but don't tell them about Exodus. But do tell them about Jesus. You know, it's like that, that fucked up line of thinking is that's like, if I'm thinking of the epicenter of the demon, like, that's a huge part of it, is the illusion that we could that our choices have don't have impact on people's bodies, and that there can be a that you can that yeah, that that's a tension you can hold somehow.

Tamice:

Yeah.

Erin:

That's not a paradox word, but we're invited into lots of tension. That is not one of them.

Tamice:

Yeah, I mean, I really I think, even as we're having this conversation, I'm kind of like reliving and re thinking about how violent that was to my soul. Like, the just the frickin boldness, for me to tell you like this man can't condemn white supremacy, white supremacy killed and kidnapped lots of people in my family. Yeah. And you're upset because I don't think that we can have the same friendship. Because knowing that you still vote for this person to lead our country. And you're upset that I voiced that. I feel betrayed. What are you doing calling me like? And it's so maddening. Because a lot of those same people who called and said that they were gonna still vote for Donald Trump, but they loved me and hope that could get over it.

Erin:

By

Tamice:

Yeah, unfollowed me this week, because I was like, watch whiteness work. We told y'all y'all did this, don't sit back and be shocked and talk about we're gonna prep for revival, get the hell out of here. Y'all did this, you put that in an office? And thinking like, where do we go and this loneliness that I feel but also feeling like maybe it was always, I was always alone. And I think I've been feeling alone since I realized I had been worshipping white Jesus. And it took it took a black body being slammed in the street for me to realize I've been worshipping white Jesus, and he has nothing for me in this space. And really having to grapple with that and realizing that you've been lied to, you've been had, it's a scam, and processing all of that. And so I feel like one of the goals for like, what I think we could do here on this show, is to really talk about the damage that some of these lies do like because it's not enough right to go around and be like, well, that's not true about God. But I think, because who cares is millions of people doing it. But I think what is helpful is to show the damage, the damage that can be done to our souls to our bodies, to our world, to our neighbor, in believing these lies, and I think my favorite quote is from Cornel West, and he said, Don't he said if if you are going to seek to be a theologian, then you need to be willing to be devastated time and again. And that sticks with me because I feel like all of the devastations that I've been facing in light of my rearing and evangelicalism has been beautiful and freeing. Oh, my God. And it seems to me that even like sort of progressive, my progressive Christianity is putting me on an ancient path.

Erin:

Right? Right. That's right. I mean, like, it's, it's, uh, yeah, it's,

Tamice:

it's been a beautiful, beautiful journey. So I don't know, if you have other things that you want to say about this topic, or even in light of the insurrection?

Erin:

Yes. Well, just to what you just said, there's a book I want to read called embracing the hopelessness by Miguel de la Tora, or is it Torah true? and liberation theologian, I think talking about how hopelessness functions to lead us to action, not not, not passivity, that embracing hopelessness, exactly. You're just saying this, like, deep? And what was the word that you use that Cornel West use? The station devastation? Yeah, yeah. And that that's some and that's part of what we're doing in subculture in the anti racism spaces for white folks is teaching. Because we don't, we do not because of our lack of bodily suffering, we do not have calluses or muscle strength, for that enduring. So we encounter hopelessness, and this is what's happening with a ton of white folks who are deconstructing, we encounter hopelessness, and we're done. First, at the first test on the quest. We're like, I'm out. And that's the same with these moments. So because I'm, I think I need to keep practicing how to distill these. Like, it's almost like nested dolls for me, like how these things are all connected, but like, because colonization creates a cast of people who believe that they are God. That they are omniscient, infallible, untouchable. What that does generationally to us. descendent of colonizers is anything that reminds us of our humanity is like anathema to us. So a huge part of that is what we're seeing right now is Republicans who were complicit in allowing this to happen, are trying to jump to condemning these actions without the power, unpacking journey of humiliation and humility, to own it and to say, I was a part of this, and that was wrong. And I'm ashamed because that was immoral. And I'm sorry. And I want to repent with action, you know, like, all of those things is what makes us all more human, but is a very specific invitation to European, you know, colonial descendant. So it's like, we don't have those tools for perseverance. And we don't have elders, many we have some, but not many, in this in our recent history, who can teach us that which is, you know, in so many ways, which is why we sit at the feet. You know, indigenous folks and black folks and queer folks. Oh, because my work

Unknown:

so good.

Erin:

Well, we'll edit that out. Yeah. Hello. In

Unknown:

Ah,

Tamice:

you know, you know, you remember the thread you were on because it was good.

Erin:

Yeah. Yeah, it's

Tamice:

jumped back. Yep.

Erin:

Persevere, and humanity. Yeah, yeah, just a lot. So I think a lot of people have pointed out that what Trump is living out is a narcissistic tantrum, like, what happens when a and maybe a trigger warning here for domestic violence. But when you know, the time before you leave an abuser, been the most manic and frantic and violent time. And I have grown up in a narcissistic family system, which has fueled my perseverance in wanting to understand how racism functions in the state, and how to call in white folks, because I understand what it's like to move forward in relationship with someone who hasn't repented, and what that does to you, as a person, and what that does to your sense of reality, the gaslighting for sure, but what but then also what that does to that person who hasn't depended, and this is gonna be really nerdy. But during the break between Christmas and New Year's, it's a tradition that we watch the extended editions of the Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit. We love being white, and we're very white. And we, it is such a help, like, it's a really helpful practice, because it's a very old story that token is telling about human nature. And it relates to a lot of these concepts where the evil of Celeron is pervasive, and gaining strength and, and is alluring people and changing their countenance in such a way that they are oppressed and possessed by this thing. And just just to remember that, I guess for me, I have to remember because of my commitment, to imago dei and to people being made in the image of God, and I have to believe that I'm also made an image of God, and that the folks who climbed those walls in their violent hubris are as well. And that part of what we're seeing is like it's Babel. It's like what happens when humans think that they can try to be God and how deeply violent that is to others into themselves. So what do you do how do you heal from a narcissist you set a boundary boundary on that shit. Now boundaries on that relationship, and we talked about this on our more than moment segment, that white folks in relationship with black folks when y'all start putting up boundaries, we feel that as like, violence or you know, we feel that's why it's like, you seem so angry you feel so angry because something is Message recoiling the inability to control you anymore inability to manipulate you and to be forced to deal with our own behavior because of the boundary that's been drawn that actually you're no longer willing to like commune with us or work with us or be on our team or whatever it is. But what that does is it, it forces us to, well, we have two options, we can either tantrum and like dig our heels in and get worse, or we can surrender and be like, I am. I am toxic to this team. I'm toxic to this work culture, I'm toxic to this family, I am toxic to this friendship. What do I need to heal, you know? And so yeah, boundary boundaries you which is why, like, you know, everyone, everyone who knows that is calling for the 25th. amendment to be invoked, but we're not going to see it because those folks are in the room who also need these boundaries. And they're doing that thing where they are trying to pass the blame, you know? And they can't, they can't hold that accountable because they're there as well.

Tamice:

Hmm. mystery of iniquity. I love hearing you talk about this stuff I learn from you. And I get I gain insight that eventually becomes I guess you could call it compassion from you. And I'm excited. I know that you guys are gonna do another round of that cohort. So

Erin:

Ah, do you have any swag? Yeah,

Tamice:

yeah. When do you When do you guys think you're gonna

Erin:

sell it? Exactly. It's forthcoming. But for those who are listening, we're going to run the more than a moment cohort again, which just happened this last year, it was part of our response to the I'm going to call it like racial justice rebirth of the summer. And it was a six month cohort for white Christians, and discipleship and tools, and education on how to how for this not to be like a flash in the pan performative activism. So we're gonna run it again, we're going to start it in Black History Month is February. So stay tuned on our social media channels. For the details on that it's going to run through July, we're going to meet twice a month, we're going to loop you into me a little bit more than

Unknown:

I'm excited for that

Erin:

the curriculum was created by our black subculture leader leadership. So it's a white affinity spaces in submission to black leadership, and, and that allows us to have accountability in a way that it would be foolish if we were just trying to do this. On our own somewhere. So

Tamice:

though, this is when all kinds of things I think I felt every emotion possible in this conversation. I love you, I love your work. I love my heroes. And we thank everybody for just kind of like sitting here and listening to us banter, because that's pretty much what we do. So blessings, peace, grace to everyone. I think, you know, we really have to be circumspect about how we walk right now. And just kind of like maintaining our sanity.

Unknown:

Yeah.

Tamice:

So bless you all. And any last words in?

Erin:

I'm sorry, I do kind of feel like there's just one last thing. We're about to land and I can't land I don't know, I just, I think like our friendship. And I think like the things we're trying to embody and subculture feels like we're pursuing new wine skins for new wine. So part of it is like, for you, for you, as a black woman, single mom, like, you're, you were saying, like, my health is important. And that's a part of it is like, I think to move forward, like, we know that things are going to have to be done differently. Black women are going to have to be paid differently and read differently and be protected differently, and be loved differently. And for white folks who want to not continue these cycles, like that's gonna take a a commitment, where this actually becomes the scrim through which you see your entire life, and why people don't want to hear that. They really want to pick up racism as one of many things that they're passionate about. And that is not possible in the United States of America. It cannot be a side interest that when shit like this happens, you're like, Oh, yes, and let me participate in an anti rape. It's training, like, because of the depth of like, the demonic ways that this has, like, shaped everything in the way we live, who gets generational wealth and how, where we get our food all like every facet of our life. I really like, um, I think what I am tired of is white folks saying, I don't want to be an activist, can I still participate in this? And it's like, I don't know what you think this is. But this is about getting at the root of our generational dysfunction as descendants of colonizers and starting to love ourselves as subculture rightly diagnosed, so that like, actually love ourselves so that our neighbors will be loved. And right now we know we do not love ourselves by seeing how our neighbors are not loved well, by us they are violently dominated by us. So if you think that that's something that you can put in your pocket and pick up when you're not distracted, I'm sorry, and I don't, I don't want to be a dick about it. But like, I have two small children. I understand that life is full and we're in a pandemic. But this is part of our responsibility is to find ways to sustain our participation in the beloved community and the liberty of struggle like and if you want to heal, that's the pathway for it. I don't see us healing generationally is life without facing these demons. That's the invitation for us.

Unknown:

C'est la vie.