Sub:Culture Presents: The Hive Podcast

More Than A Moment: Final The Diagnosis

December 30, 2020 Sub:Culture Inc.
Sub:Culture Presents: The Hive Podcast
More Than A Moment: Final The Diagnosis
Chapters
Sub:Culture Presents: The Hive Podcast
More Than A Moment: Final The Diagnosis
Dec 30, 2020
Sub:Culture Inc.

Ashley, Erin & Amber recap the year what they learned from one another and from all of you. 


Show Notes Transcript

Ashley, Erin & Amber recap the year what they learned from one another and from all of you. 


Erin:

Well, welcome back friends to the more than a moment podcast segment on jumped on this with you all. And we're definitely going to chalk it up to listeners, we had some stuff for you. But here we are, again, in December, and This poop whole dumpster fire of a year, that will not end magically on December Ashley, an amber. And just last weekend, we wrapped our first ever more than a ends of the east coast from top to bottom, top, middle and bottom. And we this is part of our discipleship. So there's sort of we're in subculture, So part of our discipleship of ourselves and of our people, is to be doing this to talk about, like, if the white American collective hasn't done this work, after so much history moments, these like, flash in the pan cultural awakenings, posting black squares on Instagram, the ways that we live in the world and the things we teach our kids aren't about it. And so I'm just going to throw out to whoever wants to start first. Why with them? And how did this happen? in the, in the pandemic times?

Amber:

Hmm. Well, why did we do this, um, I feel like a lot of things were happening in the world and a lot of white people were waking up to, to just the racial divide in our country. They were seeing police And they were noticing that there really is a problem. And, um, some people, you in different stages in their life, but like to have a space where we can you know, truth telling really, like, where we've gotten it wrong, what we've and a curriculum that was written by some of our staff at subculture Tamice, our founder, and Julian and Robert, like, they got together and they wrote a curriculum white people through this journey of just seeing the truth and how ugly it is what God has to say about it and how we can forgive ourselves and, you know, move forward in this. Yeah.

Erin:

Yeah. And it sort of culminated and I guess we'll kind of give away the the Insert paywall here that and their diagnosis in their lived experience, one black woman to black yourself and the thing that God tells us to prioritize to love God, and to love mean that they don't love themselves. Well, and this is not a diagnosis, appropriate prescription of correct knowing, but it is also about correct how you feel about that diagnosis coming from our colleagues. And it had a lot of

Ashley:

I, sadly, was not at that last cohort.

Erin:

We missed Yeah. However.

Ashley:

Um, I, you know, I really resonate with that conclusion. And that, you know, whiteness is repressive to white people. Yeah. And unlearning that has been freeing. For me. So freeing. Yeah, because there can be this sense of other and every space when you're a white person trying to divest from With these different understandings of self and identity. And I mean, I think, I don't know, it might be generational work even to have white people from this You know, it will take Yes, exactly. Yeah. And I'm, like, I can't say to good. Like, I can't now in this body and this time expect that to be the case of But also feel out. Yeah, with whiteness, which is good and necessary. Um, but I think it's a lonely term for, you know, in the sense of thinking about money myself being a good ancestor. Yeah. Um, yeah, yeah. Amen. Now, the personal healing now can't happen to I mean, yes, larger like, the Yeah, the the whole to look at

Erin:

White Americans, descendants of European descendants of colonizers and assumption. So what we're talking about is white people who are deconstructing Ashley is like, there is something about the loneliness that is the crucible in in learning posture and and to be in the like, one down position to be learning kind of remind me and makes me think of kind of what's happening right now is are leaving the church in droves and deconstructing themselves out of a maybe leaving a hole and system of meaning and or Yeah, that mean Making altogether, which is fine is your right to do that. But I think for those there's something about like, we can't only deconstruct into oblivion, we need upholding white supremacy and plantation politics and our dominance. You know, perpetuate this stuff.

Ashley:

I think as humans, it's necessary even just like people who That we're put, we're continuously pulling away from but that's like, like we did that to ourselves is constructed away to, for us to. For us to do that. Yeah. And it's unhealthy regardless. I mean, just as a

Amber:

You're good. I was just gonna say like, the whole, not loving ourselves, well, it's hard to receive because you think like, you should be hearing something else you your people are bad. Your people have only hurt people, your people have only the enemy. So how can you tell me like, and just hearing that? it? It, like the like, this is how you think about me, like I will will take myself and like, put that things that I've done and my people have done in here. Like you haven't watched yourself. Well, and like and let me show you let me show you how you haven't knowing God is really like that. He's not I'm merciless. Yes, he's not like a colonizer he's the one who gave his life. Ah, there we might be his you

Erin:

So, Oh, it's so good. It's so good. I, I listened to that and I, I think that there that that is the kind of seed that when sown will bear fruit for like forward are the things that cause the flash in the pan because even though we man on the sidewalk with a foot on his neck, we viscerally respond to that okay, but then when we don't know where to go with that, yes yeah, we don't we which is just this like browbeating I'm so sorry. And I just hate being white Yo, yep. Which is like it's so for me my own journey like, or a key turning that look like as a white woman planting a multi ethnic ministry and I remember and wanting to not come at this directly wanting to hide and assimilate and push don't see color, we don't see color. And I just had this like talk with Jesus. think you're not going to be looking to your right and your left for multi ethnic community. And that's complicated. But I think for God's heart this is where we fizzle out, not in. Am I doing the right thing? Okay, I think sound like? It sounds like perfectionism. It sounds like the tools and yeah, down. Yeah.

Amber:

Um, but then to just hear those words, like, you're not loving yourself? Well, like, figure out what that looks like. Yep. Yep. So we can love our neighbors, you Love your neighbors as yourself? Well.

Erin:

Yeah. It reminds me of, of a bully, and like a just imagine a child who's a bully. And the response is twofold. If you're going to really heal that person, you can punitively shut them boundaries, they need to know what isn't isn't Okay, and how to interact with white people, we respond culturally to the boundaries that people of color are to deal with your toxic pneus. But without if you don't have any other person of color would put up a boundary and the white counterparts would like go work. But then where do those white people go, there's actually no one in like just none of it. So it's just I think that's like, where this started these conversations, we're having these conversations. Yeah. Which goes into Yes. Why? Tell me more?

Amber:

I mean, I think one of the reasons is so that, you know, when knowing what to do with them, like having a place where, where white people out there can be an understanding, and then, you know, they can choose to are appropriate, or not appropriate. I think another reason is because people They're like, Oh, no, what if I go in here, and I say this, and, you know, it have more information or more knowledge can help in that situation. Yeah.

Ashley:

Yeah, for it not to be a place for white people to just go rant about. yeah, I guess uh, yeah, just not having us all left our own devices, I guess. answer to solving whiteness is what now the well meaning white people getting

Erin:

Last night, so the context of this cohort was okay, we are in submission to founded organization, it has a clear mission, this curriculum was put discipleship we're wishing and longing white people would have. And, and you coming in weekly to sort of teach and everyone gets to respond. Like there's this space where, because even those questions, those well, meaning I'm using So it's a way to love them. It's a boundary, and we don't respond well to know, so when we are given a boundary, like, actually, you should meet in this space to ask those questions, we chase the yourself or whatever, you ask the wrong question.

Ashley:

To the wrong person. That's right, who is going to be hurt by your the question needs to be asked, obviously, you're asking a question it But where are you going to find the answers? Or the help in figuring that belt. So I think having I have found having a rhythm where either I'm in such actual, marginalized people. And it's there, it's like, it fills in a picture

Erin:

And I think, you know, part of what whiteness has done, we talk about a lot. It's like the know truth and know the right thing all the time. It has convinced us that we that is like getting in touch with your body, as a person who lives and breathes and moves with a god like Omni desire to be omniscient desire to know everything spaces that are saying that or are even could extend that to white people, and And in the capacity of the human, which means you eat a little and then you take others have this sort of like, I guess two extremes full throttle, gorging, or total. I'm checking out of it at all. Yeah, and and not out of out of saying, I am only one person, I

Ashley:

it functions inside of community over generations, too. Because we can't But not just me because that that also can seem like a justification to just hang out and not not doing anything, or not doing I think I'm of the gorging variety of whiteness. And so I have to tell them

Erin:

who we all are.

Amber:

have this problem.

Ashley:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. So yeah, it's hard for me, for sure to let go of the

Erin:

Information is not transformation. So it's like,

Ashley:

yeah, you're actually doing stuff if it was right. I mean, we

Erin:

I feel this in my own emotional health. Like, I've been in therapy for a information is not transformation. Oh, sure. You know, which is I like I love the work of like Sonia renay Taylor. People

Ashley:

I hear it cuz I just want to read stuff. You know? Yeah, I don't want to hear that.

Erin:

And I don't, I don't mean to be a jerk in my response. But that's like, tank walking around, you know, and, but you're not. God, I

Ashley:

want to perpetuate the things that hurt me. You know, like, I'm things that I actually do myself.

Erin:

Can you put examples on that?

Ashley:

The brainy stuff. I mean, I just, I just want to read and know and, scribe to and I'm trying hard to re examine whatever that entails. But yeah, can know all the things and do all you know, and oh, you're not doing the or you must be in this box, or, or you must have sinister motive, or I mean,

Erin:

I, as you're saying that I hear the progressive version of that in my and a lack of love. Yeah.

Ashley:

Because I just want to fight back at that with the same tools.

Erin:

Mm hmm. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And this is honestly why I think queer people are going to lead us whatever experienced things that are not in these sort of black and white categories. And ways of being in community and are kind of leading these spaces. There's a queer I think about Barbara, is it not Barbara Brown, Taylor accessway there's another mean, it's just like, people that I'm just like, You're, you're in a totally all these identities that force you to reckon with your humanity. And you've

Ashley:

even even indigenous worldviews seem that way to me, because they're so Um, and, I mean, I think the way that my personality has been shaped by that either or thinking and right and wrong. I yeah. Really, really fall for that? Yeah. Yeah. So

Erin:

it's so that mystery and yes, nuance and unknowing or not knowing like of our comfort zone. And,

Ashley:

man, it's been so freeing. Yeah. spiritually. If I can take it out of Like, how narrow are we brought up that we don't even realize that there are however many atonement

Erin:

I insist, you know, you can't build a sustainable future off of an that cancer is so beautiful. And so liberative for even for us descendants Um, wait, what do you we, as we come to a bit of a close here, like, what are some of the with you as opposed to being a, um, like, a yoke? That's heavy that you pick

Ashley:

I feel like it's this very question of not questioning reality that I'm not, you know, whiteness doesn't love itself. Yeah. Right. And I'm in and the things that that worldview has taught me just even asking questions of

Erin:

I've just so that Yes. Yes. The whole breathing thing. Like I I think saying yes to one more thing, and never taking a breath and, and like, I can't that I'm saying yes, again. Yes. Again, that's again, getting this team question. of I'm not loving myself. Well, yes.

Ashley:

Like, really, like it's giving me space to let people have boundaries because if I'm all guilty and shameful, and all the things and I'm freaking out

Amber:

Yes.

Erin:

Yes.

Ashley:

I want to I mean, it, I want to be safe. Like, with myself, with my hand

Erin:

Yeah. Yeah,

Ashley:

I mean, I think you know, there's definitely like, stages,

Amber:

right?

Ashley:

of realization and figuring stuff out. Not to say that we'll be calm

Erin:

I am going to try an external processor to connect this. I think that some pieces like, oh, that would be so important to incorporate into my life. image, body positivity self, like loving yourself. I remember in like, late High something on your wall that reminds you like I'm gonna really like fast from like, yeah, like, that's, there's something to that that is of God, that's like, really, really racist harm done to black bodies, especially black female make sense? So it's like, it used to be these siloed things. And the thing that thing that actually has the capacity to sustain. I wonder, isn't that funny? How

Ashley:

we're not just loving ourselves just for our own, you know, contentment or something? It's not about that. It is. Yeah, it is about that.

Erin:

but it's also Yeah, because I want if I really want to love them, well, now

Ashley:

The Infinite exploring is exciting to me. Yeah. And all

Erin:

the more I don't see more.

Ashley:

I mean, just, you know, I want to read things and know them. I want to read things and be them. um, you know, the, the, the living out and embodying things. The knowing and being

Erin:

it's making sense.

Ashley:

Yes, um, I guess, the more I know, I don't know anything more excited. I am to learn everything we consume in that way. I mean, that's unrealistic. And also you, much as I possibly can. But I'm also like, I'm a, I'm an enneagram, eight and

Unknown:

let's write it right. Up.

Ashley:

There's always more that's super exciting to me, because I'll never reach myself and learn more about that, that I won't reach the end of that, that I is not discouraged.

Erin:

I mean, please say that because we need to hear that that's why we all are

Ashley:

Not to I'm like, I have so much you know, God will like I have a lot of

Erin:

Yeah, that's amazing. No, because as a three that hits me so powerfully, turn into this insatiable thing that kind of torments me that there's it's more, there's more, there's more and so it's it's really cool. To hear that when he was like, you know, let the little ones come to me because it's that God speaking to me is like, wait, this is what you want for me just like

Amber:

yeah.

Erin:

Anyway, we we should wrap this up. So Amber, any any final thoughts about

Amber:

mean, I think like Annabelle Yeah, always bring it back to the word books and perspectives, from black people that have to do with education, healthcare, there's all of these different areas. And the infinite thing me, I do need to, like, narrow it down a little bit. So I'm, I'm trying to stay

Unknown:

Beautiful.

Erin:

Well, thank you for your time, your presence here. It's always wonderful to be together and to on seeing that, you know, these terms, these ideas being thrown around, it's have labored in this work for generations, these have been margin loses the, the invitation that this is it will cost you something to was really glad we're gonna keep putting flesh on that through our own experience. So thank you, until we meet